Don't take them.
Whoops, I should introduce this section first. This is about the Daemon's unique HQ's (Changleing, Skulltaker, The Masque, Epidemius, The Blue Scribes and Karanak). Due to poor writing you can't take The Masque or The Blue Scribes as part of your 4 HQ limit. Most of these HQ's are cheaper (or the same price) except Karanak, who is no longer an upgrade for Hounds of Khorne? No idea why. He went from 50 (15 for Hound, 35 for Upgrade) points to 120. He's got a little more of everything though but is just not worth it in a shooting game. Let's get into why you should never take any of these guys (other than for cheesy cheese or fluffy armies)
Khorne
You've got two pretty options here. Pretty models not pretty good. Skulltaker and Karanak.
Skulltaker
Skulltaker is a beefier, more expensive, Herald with stupid high WS and BS and has the Champion of Chaos special rule (just not in so many words, and no boon table roll. The fuck Chaos Gods?). He's got Eternal Warrior, unlike his better cousin Bloodthirster, which is nice against Grey Knights (you still get no armor save and only have two wounds) but you still get to watch your entire squad be butchered by them. Fun times. He really brings nothing to the table except that what is essentially two greater rewards. And seeing as the normal Herald is just under half as expensive and just as killy. Seriously, the only difference is skulltaker gets 1 more attack. So you're paying double to get two greater rewards, a WS and BS and I that are still untouchable by all but other daemons and a kill potential nearly the same. Also have fun getting all of his attacks negated on a super weak squad when an equipment-less 6 point character challenges him.
Karanak
Karanak would be awesome if several things happened: if he could attack off deep strike and had a 3+ armor save. He's practically immune to psychic powers and is much more survivable than before but he can still be wiped by DE or IG or Tau basic troops without them breaking a sweat. If he manages to get into CC he will wreck face, then get killed as he has practically no saves. If he was still an upgrade that'd be cool. If Khorne Hounds were any good that'd be cool. If he could do his job that'd be cool. But for all intents and purposes he's a 120 point Murder Sword (from Codex: CSM) with no survivability. Imagine having a Chaos Spawn, take away his randomness and give him crappy version of Murder Sword and charge 120 points for him. If that sounds crazy amazing to you take Karanak. If not? Apparently you've played more than 2 games.
Little math: Standard 10 man unit of Space Marines vs. Karanak. Shooting (no rapid fire) will do on average 1.5 wounds. If they are within 12'' then prepare to lose Karanak. He can really wreck if he gets the charge though. Oh wait, no power attacks. He'll get on average 1.5 wounds in CC if he gets the charge against MEQ. Why are you paying 120 for him? He's 3 times as expensive as before and only slightly more killy. How much more? 1 vs. 1.5. Great upgrade ;)
Tzeentch
For some unknown reason you cannot take Blue Scribes as one of the 4 HQ choices anymore. Why this is I have no idea but it'll probably be FAQ'd eventually. The problem is that you won't want to take him anyways. And the Changeling ain't too good either. You can't give him any upgrades and he can only replicate stats not equipment on enemies. Good luck.
Blue Scribes
They don't really serve much purpose now. Their special artifact leaves too much at random for them to be good. Especially since you have to roll every turn. You'll never know if your positioning is good when the unit changes psychic powers every freakin' turn. It's a total crap-shoot. The randomness is just too much for me and it lends nothing to your army overall. He's a 50 point drop from the previous codex but he's pretty much useless and he stats are the same as an Ork Boy. Maybe if he was 40 points I'd take him. But then again I'd probably still be crazy. Random everything does not an HQ create.
Changeling
He's gone up by a looooooot of points. (He used to be a 5 point upgrade) he no longer has sweet psychic powers and instead chooses one from Change. He's got a special ability that allows him to be just as good as whomever he is facing...except for equipment. So he'll get a 50/50 chance of hurting the other guy just as much as long as he has no upgrades. Also his locus is useless unless you pair him with a unit of Pink Horrors. So he's pretty much gone from a 5 point upgrade to a worse 75 point upgrade. Unbelievable. You can't even upgrade him so why the hell bring him?
Nurgle
Well that was depressing, both Tzeentch HQ's are practically useless and more expensive. How is Epidemius?
Epidemius
All of your stats go up. Nice! How much does the stat-line change cost? 0 points. Swanky. This is definitely looking promising. How's the Tally? Ehhhhhh. It's worse. You get worse benefits at every point and now the last benefit you get is a worse version of the second to last benefit from previous and the second to last on the new tally is the second benefit you get on the previous Tally. So the Tally is now reaaaaaallly shitty. Yuck. He's better in everyway as a character but the main reason you take him is worse. That's all I have to say about that.
With a little math you find that vs. MEQ the Tally's worse vs. FX he's okay. The improved toughness is nice and the improved strength kinda matches the first benefit on the last chart (but only versus MEQ and FX). Not getting last codexes Noxious Touch until the end and never getting the ignores armor bonus really kills the tally. I'd pass.
Slaanesh
Masque
She's down 25 points and has a slightly increased stat-line. So far nice. No more moving around up to 3 units a turn, her dance instead she can wreck one unit with 12''. This sucks for 2 reasons: 1. You can't do it to 3 units anymore 2. Your enemy has no save against this. Why is 2 bad? It's just like Save or Die in D&D 3.5. The traps and spells that have you save or die from their effects are great when you use them. When used against you you're all of sudden pissed. That's how the Masque is. You can't save and all of sudden a nearby unit of yours sucks until next shooting phase with no saves allowed. Fuck that. That's just straight up dickery. Moving on, she makes more saves because she gets to re-roll them all. Still has hit and run which is nice because she's no good at CC (She's barely able to cause 1 wound on average against marines) and has no loci so there's no reason to put her near a unit of daemonettes except to use them as a bodyguard for your 12'' trolling.
Conclusion
They all suck. Some horribly, some only a lot. Don't take them. Seriously. Maybe Skulltaker on a Juggernaught cause it's funny and you'll still have the armor save. But honestly, just take a Herald. In every case, take a Herald. Heralds rule, these guys drool.
Edit: Masque is the one okay one. She's like the Deathleaper from Tyranids. She's entirely there to debuff nearby units. She trades being able to escape during any turn for being able to really hurt nearby units. With good positioning you can hurt a powerful unit with The Masque so that a big MC can charge in and annihilate it. Hard to do but it might be worth it.
ummmm Karanak can join a squad... why exactly would you be running him solo and expect him to survive against a tac squad rapid firing against him? I wouldn't expect a solo MEQ character to survive that either, doesn't mean they're bad.
ReplyDeleteTrue true. He'd obviously be accompanied by a Hound squad. That was not my point though. He has bad saves, and is weak in CC aka his whole raison d'etre.
DeleteHe's 120 points for not a lot of killy. On the charge he's got 6 attacks so:
Attacks*To Hit*To Wound*Save Chance
6*2/3*5/6*1/3 = 1.1 wounds average against MEQ.
So when he's best he's equivalent to a MEQ rapid-firing a plasma gun.
An equivalent point amount of HQ in most MEQ codexes beats him down. Even when he gets the charge.
The Masque on the other hand is not an independent character so cannot join a unit of bodyguards...
ReplyDeleteYeah I meant them to be used as a cover save screen. I've corrected the wording above to reflect this.
DeleteI've been considering trying out Karanak for one reason alone.
ReplyDeleteScout.. Sure it's 120 points... but for those 120 points I can outflank with a delicious group of Bloodcrushers, perhaps a herald on a Juggernaut in there as well. And ofcourse a Fury Locus plus the +2 on Deny the witch makes that a pretty durable group against anything that isn't shooting.. and if that outflank works out as it should, getting into melee shouldn't be a problem.
I totally agree with you. Other thank Scout Karanak has roughly no use. He's good against Psychic attacks yes but how good is he against Flyers? Necron Air? He's also, as you said, bad against shooting. If that's true why would you bother taking him in a shooting game?
DeleteHe's just not that good and for an HQ slot (or part of one) you have to set up a whole deathstar of chump units that get completely tarpitted and shot to death if they don't get the charge. Factor in the fact that you're now down a monstrous creature that could have been your HQ and overall you've hurt your army by taking Karanak and praying he gets the side you want.